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My Afternoon With Red THE VIDEO VETERAN INTERVIEW WITH STERLING C. "RED" QUINLAN |
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ALSO IN SECTION TWO OF THE VIDEO VETERAN THE MEN OF UHF
MEET SOME OF CHICAGO TELEVISION'S FAVORITE PERSONALITIES
A VIDEO VETERAN SPOT LITE- AND THEN THERE WAS...DuMONT
RELIVE YOUR CHILDHOOD!
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On
July 9 2002 The Video Veteran had the honor and privilege
of talking with the legendary Chicago television pioneer at his office
at Travel Technology Group. The walls of his modest little office
are adorned with just a small sampling of plaques and awards he has
earned throughout his long career. As I scan across the room, I
see photos of Red with such luminaries as Jack Brickhouse, Red Grange,
and Irv Kupcinet. Displayed proudly atop a bookcase (with the
first shelf holding his many published works) is a framed issue of The
Sun-Times' Sunday television magazine TV Prevue with
an illustration of Red on the cover.
Displayed among all of this, and just as
proudly, are several pencil illustrations by his oldest son, who sadly
would die by his own hand while still a teenager. One wonders had
the boy's life taken a different path would his obvious artistic talent
brought him the success and admiration earned by his father before him.
Red was gracious enough to spend a couple hours reminiscing about his
family, riding the rails, WBKB, WFLD, and
writing books. The man is a living example of American history.
I for one was in awe.
THE VIDEO VETERAN: In
1966, Chicago was home to two minor league UHF stations, WCIU on
channel 26, a mostly-ethnic broker and WXXW, Chicago's second
educational station on channel 20. Both stations were low-powered,
transmitted in black and white only, and struggled to survive. Did
you see launching WFLD the same kind of challenge as back in
the days of making WBKB a success?
STERLING 'RED' QUINLAN: In one sense, yes.
In those days, 'BKB was pushing the envelope. There weren't
that many sets- about 800 or so. We didn't have many programs on
at nighttime and test patterns during the day. Kukla, Fran, and
Ollie started and everybody liked that. I was the mike operator
for Burr and Fran. Fran was a singer and well known from The
Breakfast Club. Burr wasn't that well known. And the 'FLD
thing- it was slow and uphill, not like 'BKB which was fun and
interesting. I got my chance to rise with that group. I
switched from being a boom mike operator to an audio man. I got to
push a camera around in the studio. There were no unions.
The unions were all connected but they weren't pushing Balaban &
Katz. And we were the third station in the country. So I
pushed my way through, became an assistant director then a
director, though I didn't have much competition! And word got
around and everybody liked me. They were all good people. WFLD
was entirely different. I was ready to retire at 'BKB when
I got this challenge from Field. He heard I was retiring. He
pushed me, called me. Took me out for drinks. VV: How was Field Communications [the company created
to run WFLD] able to secure a UHF construction permit? RQ:
Well they pulled a little shenanigan to get the station on the air.
The license for channel 32 was owned by two of the Balaban brothers-
Harry and Elmer. Field wanted me cuz they knew I had good marks
with the commission in Washington. I was able to go in and
introduce myself to all of the commissioners- there were seven at the
time. And Bob Lee, he was a Chicago boy and he and I hit it off
great. I told [Harry and Elmer] flat out. We want to
get UHF started in Chicago. And they said 'We do too!'
But they hadn't put it on the air. They weren't doing a thing.
There were various entrepreneurs and companies talking to them and
they thought they had a killer instinct. All they wanted to do was
keep the station and let Field have half of it, so they could
get the credit and get Field's money. Not a bad idea. When I
got in the act, I told the FCC that we wanted to put money in to make it
a good station but we have to have the right to buy it out. And
they went along with it. I think we exercised that option the
first year we were on the air. Harry and Elmer didn't like that.
They didn't want me. They wanted to run it themselves.
But Field didn't want anybody but me. VV: Well let's back up some. What
happened at ABC? VV: Ted Shaker was head of ABC Spot Sales? VV: What were a couple of your accomplishments
at ABC? RQ: My first talk show, ahead of Steve Allen,
was with Tom Duggan. It was late at night when all the stations
were running movies. The 5's and 6's the movies were getting went
down to about 2's. We were going up to 4's and 5's. Then I
put Tom on in the afternoon and knocked out all the soap operas.
I didn't tell New York I was doing this. I hid out. When
they had the Kefauver hearings, the guy producing it couldn't get any of
the other owned and operated stations to run it because their New York
bosses wouldn't let them. It would ruin their movies and their
soap operas. But I did that. And I wanted to see the
overnight ratings when they came out. And sure enough the
broadcast impression it made was tremendous. So Leonard was
on my side with that and Shaker hated me. We had a special phone,
a private phone. A joke I used to pull on Shaker and all the New
Yorkers was when they would call I would answer 'City Morgue- What
shelf?' VV: So now at WFLD you're asked to
perform the same kind of magic again. What were you thinking about
in terms of programming? Did you have to develop everything
yourself? RQ: My agenda was to put the byline
writers of both newspapers [Field's "The Chicago Sun-Times"
and the soon to be defunct "Chicago Daily News"] on the air.
Five minutes of every hour, we would cut to a mike in an announce booth. VV: Now I remember a show, and I don't even
think you could call it a program. , but it was on everyday on
channel 32 during the morning and early afternoon and it would be
interrupted by five minutes of news. It was called Kaleidoscope.
All it was was constantly changing patterns of color set to elevator
music. RQ: (Laughs) Yea that was Bill
Eddy's idea! VV: Bill Eddy's? On channel 32? RQ: Well he started in on 'BKB but it didn't work so well. 'BKB signed on about 5:30 or 6 and we would use it for about a half an hour as an introduction. So we put it on the shelf for a while because I knew it would be a winner. RQ: It captured your attention too. The
old time music was good. It was something new. Anytime you
walked into a store the TVs were all on that channel. VV: It was perfect for selling those color TVs! VV: At this point channel 32's only real
competition is long time independent WGN-TV, most others being
network affiliates. RQ: I got Tom Duggan back. He was on the
coast. VV: You brought him back even after he walked
off his show on WBKB? RQ: About three times a year he would go on a
bender and tell no one, not even the director of the show. Come
9:00 the director thinks he's running late and then he just doesn't show
up. Duggan would be holed up in some motel out on the far west
side or some place and stay there for about a week. He'd get drunk
as a whore. He'd have his buddies come over. Women come
over. I didn't have the guts to fire him because he'd sober up. VV: But you did do some things that got his attention. RQ: I reached for his temper. I would put in as a substitute names around town that I knew he hated. Jack Eigan over at NBC. He hated him. And he would sober up. VV: So how did Duggan's association with channel 7 come to an end? VV: Now he's committed and contracted to a show. And he decides to leave just like that? VV: He was too high profile? RQ: They had a meeting, I guess, and decided that harassment was better. He knew what they were saying and they knew what he was saying because the mob gal was talking to them about it. One night when I was living in Highland Park, he pulls up in a convertible, comes to the door and gives me a handgun. He says 'Put this in your glove compartment.' I asked why. He says 'I don't know. You may need it for protection. I got two in my car.' Well I was keeping in touch with the FBI and believed that this was now getting serious. Well apparently [the Mob] scared him enough to get him out of town. So what am I going to do? VV: So now you're thinking of bringing him back to Chicago and WFLD. Had he been out of television since his abrupt departure from Chicago? VV: He left not long after you did, I believe. VV: Tell me about 'This Is Your Life- Tony Accardo.' What were you trying to do? RQ: A publisher wants me to write a book about all this. I would walk home from here [at 190 North State] down to 20 East Cedar which is about ten blocks. All the Mob saloons were open. Almost all of them were owned indirectly by the Mob. I would often stop at The Tradewinds, which was on Rush Street. It had a long bar. Seemed like fifty yards long. And I stopped for a martini and I saw him [Accardo] at the end of the bar. It was only about 5:30 so there weren't that many people. The bartender says 'My friend would like to buy you a drink.' And I look and Accardo waves to me. And I thought about what he wanted. He wanted to know about the program I was developing. I had purposely planted rumors all around town that the first one I was working on was going to be Tony's. It was going to be called 'This Is Your Life' It was a parody on the famous 'This Is Your Life' program. I had all the background stuff I needed because they had it in the papers already. I decided that it would be 'This Is Your Life- Tony Accardo' and it would concentrate on the family. So I got the FBI to give me some wagons- grocery wagons with holes in them where you could put a camera in and shoot the family. Kids going to school and coming home. Nobody had that footage. We had library footage. More than we needed. But the Mob wanted to protect their family. I could understand that. And I had some pretty good footage. And I was ready to go and I purposely let the rumors out because I wanted to get a reaction. VV: And you got one. RQ: Well they hadn't done anything to me yet. One night someone knocked on my door. I ran to the door and nobody was there. So I thought it's gotta be the Mob. They're playing a little game with me. But when I sat down with Tony and had a martini... he had a whiskey I think. He said 'How's that program going?' I said 'What program?' 'You know what program.' I said 'Well its experimental and if we don't like it we're not going to go with it. He asked 'What is it specifically about?' I said 'Well I'll leave that as a surprise to you.' He says 'No, you're not surprising me. I know what its all about. You tell me.' I said 'It's a parody of This Is Your Life.' Now I knew this was the time to find out how much he was going to schmooze me or threaten me. But he didn't threaten me. He just talked and says 'What's it gonna do for ya?' 'Well I need ratings.' 'You mean ratings mean money?' I said 'Sure.' 'Well maybe I could get you some.' And I said 'OK. A salesman will talk to you.' He says 'When do you think this is gonna start, Red?' And I said 'I don't know. If we don't like the pilot...we gotta have an awfully good pilot.' He says 'Well let me know if you have any trouble with it. We'll help you.' (Laughs) He was playing a very clever approach. No threats in this at all. But I took it the other way. I thought about it. They knew everything that was going on. I wasn't trying to make a secret out of it. So I didn't put it on the air. VV: You must have feared for your family. RQ: Oh yea. It was kind of a scary time. I bought the FBI's story that they were not going to kill Tom Duggan, even though they would love to. They chased him out of town with threats. I don't know what kind of threats. But they didn't use that kind of harassment with me until that night with the martini at The Tradewinds. And it was a subtle reverse harassment. I kind of built that in my head after going home. I thought 'Jeez he did that for a fucking purpose!' And I was reading all kinds of things into it.
By 1968, Red was ready to retire and begin writing again. Certainly the man had plenty to write about. From riding the rails at 19, working his way up from a WBKB crewmember to the head of the station and finally launching what would become the first commercially successful Chicago UHF station. As if that wasn't enough, Red would pack up and move to Pakistan by invitation of Prime Minister Bhutto, who desired to bring his countrymen out of the "dark ages" and into the twentieth century. And what better way to do that but give them television.
RQ: I resigned from Field because I wanted to retire. My wife was upset at me because I was in the house...her territory. I was driving her crazy. I was having trouble with one of my books. So I began to pick up on consulting. I put the word out to columnists and reporters. It didn't take long for offers to come. Most of the offers wanted me to run something. I didn't want to, didn't want to put the time in. The background I had, as a pioneer in the business, consulting was enough. VV: Your resume spoke for you. RQ: Right! Field gave me a nice payoff and I was quickly nabbed by Prime Minister Bhutto, who was trying to bring the Pakistani people in to the nineteenth century let alone the twentieth. He hired me and I went over there and lived like a king. I brought my wife and son over for a little while. Pakistan paid me a hell of a lot of money. I threw out a lot of American programs . They were all money programs- win this win that. Bhutto dropped a lot of money in the programs because of me. I connected the five cities. Hooked up a network of the five stations. I worked for President Ford. Worked for him as a communications consultant. I changed a lot of things that he was thinking about. I had numerous clients looking for me. The ones that wanted me to work eight hours a day and take bottom line responsibility I wouldn't accept. I didn't need it and didn't like it. I'd done it and I was successful. When I retired from 'FLD Bill McCarter became manager of channel 11. He was living on the east coast. Newton Minnow was the scout to find somebody because the station was about ready to break out and do something. He found McCarter, went to visit him and had him come to Chicago. Before [McCarter] took the job, he told him three people you must be in constant touch with- one is Mayor Daley, one is Red Quinlan, and one is Irv Kupcinet. RQ: The local spot film industry was dropping down the chute. They were shooting a few atmosphere pictures of Chicago- like Wacker Drive... VV: Like the old green lights on lower Wacker. RQ: Yea. Then they'd go back to Hollywood and shoot the story. I couldn't blame them. It's the way I'd do it too. They got some good money out of those allegedly Chicago- based pictures. Canada had a discount deal that was killing the movie industry. But I came on in '79 to about '89. I set up The Chicago Coalition. Worked for almost nothing, about $20,000 a year because I was working another job, another consulting situation. I had been elected president of The Chicago Ad Club. A very prestigious club. I did the job for three years, no pay. Then I saw this situation [Chicago film scene] and took the Coalition effort over because I figured that was the only way to save it. I had all the contacts through the Ad Club presidency. I knew all the presidents of the local agencies- everyone right on down to the guys that clean the bathrooms! And I turned around big money, about forty million dollars! I finally got up to that point, I had enough and I wanted out of it. I did get out and they tried to keep it going. They asked me three times later to come back and I didn't. But it helped a great deal. It gave me a wonderful name in Chicago. That's why I'm so well known. I was positive I came at the right time and did the right thing. Didn't take any money for it and worked out of another office. Everybody cooperated with me. Contributed money to the Coalition. Any advertising and expenses I had they paid for. So I was glad I did that. But again- been there- done that. That's enough of that. But I love to do new things. Like this job here. I don't know a fucking thing about travel. I could learn it easy. It's not that complicated. But I have contacts that bring in money! VV: Well Red, you've had one amazing career. After all that, what the hell are you doing working? RQ: Yea that's what people say. Unless I tell them, they don't believe I'm eight-five. A lot of them think I'm bullshitting. That I'm only sixty-five. VV: Hey you look good for your age. RQ: I do look good for my age. I don't look eighty-five. I'm active. I can move around pretty fast! As long as I feel that way. As long as I feel energy. I just don't over do it. I don't need to work. But I like to drive down. Sit around here. Helped Bruce [DuMont] found the museum [MBC- Museum Of Broadcast Communications]. I have a pretty good reputation in Chicago. And I like it. I can tell off people. I've done that a few times! VV: So you're not the kind of guy to be out on a boat fishing, enjoying retired life. RQ: No! Never enjoyed fishing. I never played much golf. Golf never interested me at all. It just bored the shit out of me. Played a lot of handball. I was very good at it. I was a good athlete. Shorty after a family vacation in Ireland, tragedy would strike the Quinlan home. Red explains... RQ: Spent about a week in Ireland. I had never been there. My ancestors are Irish. About a week later, my wife had a stroke. Fourteen years ago. Never been the same since. It's not a drastic stroke. She can drive a car. She'll drive it to Dominick's or church. She won't come downtown. If she has a doctor's visit I'll take that day off and drive her down and back. But she is coming back now. She's trying to do things. She's pushing the envelope. She sleeps half the time but she makes breakfast for me. If I don't feel like going out for lunch, she'll pack a lunch. She does the laundry. Her sister's only eight miles away so she drives over almost every day. We pay for a couple of gals to come in. So I have her well protected. But she's doing things. Her doctors say it's better to have her push the envelope even though you're taking a chance. Because if she falls and hits her head real hard, she could be in a wheelchair from then on or gone. So we're on pretty good terms. VV: You seem to have adjusted well. RQ: I have a good sense of humor. I like to pull the chain on people. VV: Any heroes Red? RQ: Tolstoy was my hero. I read every god damn thing he wrote. Plus all the things he wrote that hardly anybody reads like essays. I read about a hundred other writers too. So my idols are good writers. VV: Would you do it all again? Ride the rails...TV...? RQ: Yea, I loved it. I rode the rails for three years off and on. I was spending most of my time in California, in L.A. where it was warmer. I certainly wouldn't go to Maine. I loved it. I had girlfriends out there. I was a hell of a bum! I learned how to get food. I wouldn't go knocking on doors unless I had a big t-shirt that said "Notre Dame" or something. You'd knock on the door and they'd see that and ask if I was hungry and I'd say 'yes but what can I do for your house?' 'Cut your grass or anything else I can do. And then you can give me anything you want- if you want too.' Notre Dame on your shirt, it was a piece of cake! I don't regret it. I did it primarily because my father died and I got [angry] at him. I loved my father. Teenage irrationality. We all have it to some extent. Freight trains were tough. You had to watch your step. They were dangerous. You'd hitchhike too. I went with three buddies but we broke up after that. One of them was on parole for stealing automobiles! We got into a few melees. Our first trip was Hastings Nebraska, this one guy, a fourth one- got dust pneumonia. Dust pneumonia was a big thing back in the Depression. You'd notice it more at night than daytime. You couldn't count the streetlights a block away because the fog was so consistent. But it wasn't fog- it was dust. It would make you sick on the spot. My father died when he was only about 30 and his sister lived to a 104. He was a big husky guy. He would have lived to be that way too but he had a big auto accident on the way to Iowa with a buddy of his. They ran into a snowplow that covered the whole street. From what I've been told, the snow was so bad they never saw the blade. So it cut off the roof of the car and my dad was crunched by the steering wheel. The wheel was stuck in his stomach. In those days doctors didn't know what the hell to do with him. They just sewed him back up and prayed. He was a very healthy guy and had a lot of guts. But a year later something happened and he died overnight. I was a freshman at Fenger High School wanting to write the great American novel. I was reading Tolstoy and all those guys when nobody in high school was doing that. At least very few. VV: You're fourteen at this point and you're thinking ahead like this. Fourteen year old boys usually don't think like that. RQ: That's right but I had a good imagination. And a lot of determination. When I got TB I went to the sanitarium in Chicago here they said 'You really got it. There's nothing we can really do for you. Go home. You gotta back yard' 'Yea.' 'Well then cut the grass, just lay around and drink egg nogs!' Told my mother too. Milkshakes or malted milk. Plus fruit but a lot of egg nog. She'd give me about ten egg nogs a day. VV: What was the thing with egg nogs? RQ: I don't know. That whole family...egg nogs...milkshakes...malted milk. To them it was a life saver. They had a sanitarium where they were going to put me but they said 'You wouldn't get as many egg nogs as you would at home with your mother.' We weren't poor people. We were middle class people. VV: You figured the tuberculosis would keep you out of the service? RQ: I got an early draft number and I passed! I couldn't believe it! I didn't want to go in. I wanted to be a bum. But I went with great enthusiasm to the Navy. I didn't think it made much sense to walk fifty miles and get your ass shot off. I wanted to have a ride! So the Navy took me and I adjusted. What the hell. VV: So it was around this time that you got your life together. You changed your attitude about your dad. RQ: Oh yea. That went away. Just common sense. I was totally insane. I just woke up. I don't think about it at all anymore. I loved my dad. I loved my mother. I would have been the same way if it was my mother. VV: Did your mom live a long life? RQ: She lived about twenty-five years longer. She was about eighty I think when she died. VV: And you said your aunt lived to be 104? RQ: Yea my father's sister. 104 years old. VV: So your family is long lived? RQ: Yea for the most part. VV: So you got another twenty years to go right? RQ: (laughs) I'll buy it! I'll take it! What the hell. But the minute I start to get sick I'll quit this and stay home and try to recover. If I can't well then bye-bye. VV: So your health is good now? RQ: Oh yea. I just took my semi annual exam. 100%. I did lose about ten pounds. I'm about 162 now. But I'm better this way. I like it better. I'll keep this up. Play it year by year. Enjoy life. Make a speech here and there. I have a good sense of humor. I used to drive Bill Friedkin crazy! He was a Chicago boy. So was Bob Newhart. And Steve Allen. I got him for 'You Can Go Home Again.' VV: How many episodes were made of that series? RQ: Only five. We were negotiating with [Ernest] Hemingway to do him but he killed himself. VV: Do any exist? RQ: They're gone, except for Friedkin who has Red Grange and [former WBKB program director] Dan Schuffman has Steve Allen. VV: The name "Sterling." Was that a family name? RQ: Yea. My mother's name was Lillian Sterling. I was in first grade and the first day a kid comes up to me and says 'What's your name?' And I say 'Sterling.' He says 'What's that mean?' And he goes and tells his friends and the next thing I know they got me registered as a major sissy. They didn't know what it meant. The guy would come back and hit me in the jaw. And that went on for about three weeks. I couldn't figure it out until somebody explained that they thought I was a sissy because of my first name. They couldn't call me "Ster." So my hair was red, a bright blond red, not a dark red, and I got fed up getting hit everyday. I had never been in fights in Iowa. But I got my Irish up and started to fight back. In two weeks I had that guy all knocked apart! I learned to fight in two weeks and I took out some other guys. So I used "Red." And I've used it all my life. And I'm glad I did because I think I'm better known. VV: Where does "Carroll" come from? RQ: I'm a member of the famous Carroll family, the last signer of The Declaration Of Independence, John Carroll. My father was Carroll Quinlan. A very distinguished family on that side. VV: Red you're just a walking example of American history! It's been a honor and pleasure to talk with you. Thank you very much for your time. MY AFTERNOON WITH RED is copyrighted 2002 by Steve Jajkowski. All Rights Reserved. QUINLAN AT A GLANCE
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